Conblogation

Chris Corrigan is still sharing with us his reflections as he reads Lewis Hyde's The Gift.

Chances are we won't be able to slow Chris down sufficiently to catch up with him, but what if some of us cross-posting in these spaces were to select something that we could read and blog about simultaneously.

I recently hosted an online conversation in a private discussion space that was facilitated by Amy Kass. We had about a dozen participants talking about two short readings in her book, The Perfect Gift.

Now that I'm beginning to get the hang of this blogging stuff it seems that we could do something similar out here in the open. I have a few extra copies of The Perfect Gift if anyone wants to take me up on it! We would simply agree on a reading and a time frame in which we would begin blogging. Could be fun.

Comments

[Ted Ernst]

I'll take you up on it, Lenore! :-)

I didn't get a chance to meet you in Chicago, but you were present many times in conversations even without your body there. :-)

[Lenore Ealy]

Thanks, Ted... Let's see if we can get 4-5 more and go for it!

[phil]

Nice idea. I have my own well-thumbed copy. Should be read, Lenore, in my opinion as a deep set of intuitions about a gift culture, that includes myth, poetry, and ritual, that goes back to times before markets, and before money. Hyde sees that culture as somehow living inside or beside our current ways of organizing things, and as potentially hostile to money-exchange as Medival Christians were to Jews (associated with money lending) and as was Pound to usury, leading him to embrace Fascism. Hyde is very deep, has something in common, I think, with Cornuelle. Yu could read Hyde, Lessig, and Bollier, if you had time for a curriculum and cross it with Hayek. Now that would make intectual energies surge.

Don't know that "book blogging" has ever been done like this. Heck of a good idea. You know who else would love it? Peter Karoff. At least he should becasue he could use that approach to promote his own writing on these topics.

[Chris Corrigan]

I'm in...don't have a copy...happy to trade for something!

I'd love to book blog something Peter recommends too...that would be a trip.

[Lenore Ealy]

Chris and Ted, I'll send you copies of Amy's book. I have Hyde, and I think that's what Phil's referring to. Let's choose...

[Chris Corrigan]

And Phil...add in Schell too just becasue he got me started on this whole thing...or if you like, the primary sources like Havel and Gandhi, Adam Michnik and Aung Sun Suu Kyi.

I'm always inspired by hearing from people who have had a hand in tearing down totalitarian regimes that the power of citizenship and living in truth is critical. That's how I know it works.

[Lenore Ealy]

Of these authors, Chris, I know only some of Havel's work. Know, of course, who Gandhi was, but haven't read his writings. Don't know the others at all—look forward to learning.

I can concur with your desire to see totalitarian regimes dismantled. Amen! What intrigues me about the various positions in this conversation is that there seems to be such disagreement over the role of markets in the discussion.

America is not perfect. Never will be. And yes, we need to look at its shadows: including the disgraceful history of our interaction with the Native American tribes/nations. Clearly we can examine our own history, expose our faults, and strive to improve our record.

The route to make things better, I believe, is not primarily through more political action and regulation of markets, however, but through increasing voluntary action outside of the center. An opening up, if you will, of many many centers of voluntary power--and yes genuine voluntary BONDS among people--that can compete, as my friend Dick Cornuelle puts it, with the state for the public business.

I see the market--embedded in a robust set of institutions such as private property, rule of law, etc--as aiding and abetting such decentralization.

The sort of one-world-order corporate globalization feared by many progressives is a true danger, I believe, only if we concur with the tendency of some corporations to seek monopoly, cartels, or other rent-seeking privileges from government. These are not free market behaviors in my book!

Some argue that given the disparaties in economic power, we don’t have the wherewithal to fight against multinational corporations. Tell that to the greengrocer Havel talks about in his essay on the power of the powerless. We clearly have a host of free institutions on our side that grocer did not, so I find it somewhat disingenuous of us to whine about our lack of power.

As I understand it thus far the progressive critique of free markets that Phil and Gerry often posit here is actually a critique of corporate behaviors seeking to skirt the discipline of a genuinely free market. We have institutions to deal with these abuses, but we don’t yet have the moral and political will to truly open our markets because we seem so confused about what markets really are. I hope we can explore all this further together. It's our biggest stumbling block to mutual understanding just now, I think! I’m learning more by trying to explain my views cogently out here than I have in a long time talking among those who basically share my views!

[Ted Ernst]

Lenore, more and more I'm finding my own conceptions of liberal/conservative are breaking down. For several years I've been working to create a world where the human being is the central value and this work does not take place in the corporate boardroom (though it could if those already there wanted to) nor in the halls of congress (again, could be there if people already there wanted it) but in the individual and small groups that are taking on this work and making personal and grassroots changes in their daily individual and collective lives. We have nearly 1 million volunteers coming together for htis personal and social change, not advocating anything necessarily, but building up an alternative way of relating with ourselves and one another, finding ways to take care of community problems as a community. I look forward to continuing this conversation through books or in any other way. :-)

[Gerry]

This book blogging concept could really be cool. Already I can see a number of activities around it to coordinate. Book exchange, which could be part of a larger concept of putting our personal library card catalogs on-line and making the books move. Also, coordinating groups who are reading the same books and blogging about it. A group blog and wiki might be a good resource. Many possibilities.

Good points about the political labels, Ted. Often they are just used to manipulate. As Lenore points out, most of the worst corporate behaviors are actually against the free market, seeking private advantage or gaming the system. I would just add that the process by which the largest corporations accumulate wealth and power appear to be systemic problems with the corporate forms. The problem is that free markets and the legitimacy of corporate forms are often conflated, but I digress.

I got to experience a little of what Ted is refering to on Thursday. They have a very simple and accepting process to connect people in small face to face groups. Only a small introduction, but my sense is that it is a powerful way to build a big face to face network.

[Gerry]

Bought "The Gift" and "Dark Age Ahead" yesterday.

My suggestion is to establish a couple of Wiki pages to coordinate. The "home page" for this would have a list of books being proposed, and I section for the "current" book (could be several with several groups if people want this) that lists links to the blog entries where the discussion is ongoing. And so on.

[Lenore Ealy]

Thanks, Ted and Gerry for continuing this thread. Gerry writes:

As Lenore points out, most of the worst corporate behaviors are actually against the free market, seeking private advantage or gaming the system. I would just add that the process by which the largest corporations accumulate wealth and power appear to be systemic problems with the corporate forms. The problem is that free markets and the legitimacy of corporate forms are often conflated, but I digress.

I think there is much validity in your observation, Gerry, that we tend to confuse corporate forms with free markets. The corporate form with which we are most familiar emerged in the Progressive era, when markets were most suspect and the use of the state to promote social justice beginning to gain momentum. It's a period we don't know enough about historically. There's a great book by Jeffrey Lustig on Corporate Liberalism, and I would argue that it's this strange thing we really need to dismantle.

This is where we will find common ground, and why I think Cornuelle's work provides some important help.

[Ted Ernst]

Lenore, I received Amy's book in the mail from you today. Any more thoughts on how to coordinate our reading/blogging?

[pete]

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